The Helsinki Olympic Stadium sits about a mile out of the Finland capital and has a reputation linked to athletics as much as it does football. On the early evening of Sunday it will feel about as inviting to Lee Carsley as would a dip in the Baltic Sea.
It’s funny what a bad game of football can do a man, his state of mind and indeed his prospects.
Carsley looked like an adventurer ahead of Thursday night's home game with Greece. He looked and sounded brave and smart and new. Fresh systems, cute ideas and clever theories. We all bought in to them, too. Jude Bellingham, Cole Palmer and Phil Foden in the same team without a centre forward. Yep, that was new alright.
And maybe Carsley will still feel and sound full of conviction when he speaks again ahead of Sunday’s game against Finland in the Nations League. It is to be hoped he does and also that his team take heed. Because on Sunday tea-time against a team ranked between Cabo Verde and Burkina Faso and positioned 16 places beneath Greece in FIFA’s 64th spot, Carsley needs to win a football match if his credibility as the long-term successor to Gareth Southgate is not to lie in shreds.
If England beat Finland this weekend then this horror show against Greece can be filed in a drawer to sit alongside the other anomalies that international football throws up from time to time. But if they don’t then heaven knows where that leaves Carsley and his prospects.
Lee Carsley oversaw an England horror show against Greece and must now beat Finland
Vangelis Pavlidis scored both goals on Thursday night as Greece beat England 2-1
Jude Bellingham had scored a late equaliser but England could not contain Greece for the win
It was a rude awakening for Lee Carsley at Wembley as he suffered his first defeat in charge
Greece had the ball in England's net on five occasions but had three goals disallowed
This defeat should not derail Carsley, but it puts big pressure on his next fixture
And this was always going to be the thing about this Nations League group. Relegation from Pool 1 last time round left Carsley facing six games against the dead beats in Pool 2. On the one hand, that has given the 50-year-old palatable fixtures against Greece, Finland and the Republic of Ireland. The flip side, however, is that it left him with absolutely no margin for error. It’s one thing to lose at Wembley to Belgium or Italy. Quite another to falter against Greece.
So it’s fair to say that Carsley has taken his mulligan. This was his air shot. The one for his mates to laugh about on the third tee. There can surely be no more. After Finland on Sunday comes a November double header against Greece in Athens and then the Republic at Wembley. If he wins the lot England can still top the group. If he doesn’t then he may well be in trouble. No pressure.
The FA would like him to be their man and there has been much to like so far. John Stones – captain here – compared Carsley – albeit after some prompting – to Pep Guardiola earlier this week. It may be a while until we hear that line again.
Under no circumstances should this result and performance be allowed to derail Carsley on its own. We need to more grown up than that, both as a nation and a media.
Nevertheless, this was an absolute horror show. It was the worst defeat in a competitive game in terms of ranking since England lost to Northern Ireland in 2005. And the truth is that it was thoroughly deserved. Greece scored twice, had three more disallowed and had another shot cleared off the line. Sound bad? That’s because it was and there were worrying echoes of the summer’s difficulties at the European Championships wrapped up in it too.
Carsley’s tactics were different to those of Southgate in the summer – we have all praised him for that - but still we saw a group of England players whose club form deserted them. Palmer missed a chance that he should have taken blindfolded. Stones looked lost while even Jordan Pickford – such a reliable goalkeeper these days – seemed to have brought with him a dose of the chaos he has been experiencing at Everton. It turns out that stuff can be infectious.
And Carsley – because really this is about him and only him at this stage – looked a little bit perplexed by it all at times. It took him an hour to concede defeat and admit that his decision to play without a centre forward hadn’t worked to such an extent that his plethora of attacking players resembled mannequins on a carousel. Round and round they went hoping that at some stage they would come across the ball.
With hindsight, he probably should have changed it sooner. When Ollie Watkins, a centre forward, came on in the second half he almost scored with his first touch.
England's experiment without a recognised striker backfired on a frustrating night
Cole Palmer, Bellingham, and Phil Foden were stifled in the absence of Harry Kane
Pavlidis paid tribute to George Baldock, the English-born Greece international who died on Wednesday aged 31 after drowning in a pool in southern Athens
Pavlidis dedicated his opening goal - Greece's first-ever at Wembley - to Baldock
His team-mates held aloft a white shrit bearing Baldock's name after the defender died aged 31
This one is done now, though. It was as surprising as it was embarrassing but the best thing that can be said is that it is over and done with. It is in the past.
In Scandinavia on Sunday, Carsley will be hamstrung a little by the imminent return of domestic football. He will have to manage some of his players’ minutes before they return to their clubs. He will, it seems, be without the injured Bukayo Saka.
The possible return of Harry Kane will nudge England back in a more recognisable shape, perhaps. Even without him, Watkins surely must play.
And what we need to see is recovery and a reaction, from England but also from their manager. It feels like a critical couple of days for Carsley. One day he may look back at this defeat and see it as a mere kink in the road, something to learn from and all the rest of it. Equally he may not. Chances are we will know much more by the time the lights go out at the Olympic Stadium, Helsinki.